caydee
05-23 07:23 PM
Go ahead and send them as well, after you are done sending the first 2 (your state) and the 10 other priority senators.
I have sent to my state senators + 10 senators IV identified. I have also sent an email to the ND senator after he voiced his support for our cause on the senate floor today. I now plan to write to all 2008 presidential candidates. Most importantly I am going to write to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, as he has always been a champion of business and immigrant communities.
I have sent to my state senators + 10 senators IV identified. I have also sent an email to the ND senator after he voiced his support for our cause on the senate floor today. I now plan to write to all 2008 presidential candidates. Most importantly I am going to write to Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, as he has always been a champion of business and immigrant communities.
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SunnySurya
08-18 01:17 PM
Again folks! please think hard, what can be done ???? (other than filling lawsuits)
hiUS
09-03 10:29 AM
Folks
Did anyone get their physical Cards without getting CPO message ?
I have recd the I-797C Approval notice on the 11th but I have not recd the physical cards as yet. BTW I did not get any welcome e-mail or CPO mail - I directly got 485 Approval e-mail and that is all.
Did you receive teh physical cards by now?
My Case:
08/12/08 - Approval Notice Sent message (This is the only message I got)
08/18/08 - Received the Approval notice by post
No cards till now...:confused:
Did anyone get their physical Cards without getting CPO message ?
I have recd the I-797C Approval notice on the 11th but I have not recd the physical cards as yet. BTW I did not get any welcome e-mail or CPO mail - I directly got 485 Approval e-mail and that is all.
Did you receive teh physical cards by now?
My Case:
08/12/08 - Approval Notice Sent message (This is the only message I got)
08/18/08 - Received the Approval notice by post
No cards till now...:confused:
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eyeopeners05@yahoo.com
05-28 10:13 AM
Hi all,
If i takeup candian pr and discontinue my h1b, can i enter usa using the canadian pr for visit purposes if i ever wanted to ?
I have a home here and may need to visit once in a while.
Thanks
If i takeup candian pr and discontinue my h1b, can i enter usa using the canadian pr for visit purposes if i ever wanted to ?
I have a home here and may need to visit once in a while.
Thanks
more...
simple1
05-02 01:07 AM
Thanks a lot lost_in_migration for providing supporting docs.
I strongly believe none will be affected with this correct interpretation of EB dependents must not use ebquota.
4. INA Section 203(e) provides that family-sponsored and employment-based preference visas be issued to eligible immigrants in the order in which a petition in behalf of each has been filed. Section 203(d) provides that spouses and children of preference immigrants are entitled to the same status, and the same order of consideration, if accompanying or following to join the principal. The visa prorating provisions of Section 202(e) apply to allocations for a foreign state or dependent area when visa demand exceeds the per-country limit. These provisions apply at present to the following oversubscribed chargeability areas: CHINA-mainland born, INDIA, MEXICO, and PHILIPPINES.
From the text highlighted above can we infer that EB principal applicant's PD will be applied to EB dependent (irrespective of whether the visa number is taken from EB or FB) ?
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=c9fef57852dc066cfe16a4cb81683 8a4
203(d) => Treatment of Family Members. - A spouse or child as defined in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), (D), or (E) of section 101(b)(1) shall, if not otherwise entitled to an immigrant status and the immediate issuance of a visa under subsection (a), (b), or (c), be entitled to the same status, and the same order of consideration provided in the respective subsection, if accompanying or following to join, the spouse or parent.
same status can be EB GC or just GC ?? If it is EB GC then this thread can RIP
I strongly believe none will be affected with this correct interpretation of EB dependents must not use ebquota.
4. INA Section 203(e) provides that family-sponsored and employment-based preference visas be issued to eligible immigrants in the order in which a petition in behalf of each has been filed. Section 203(d) provides that spouses and children of preference immigrants are entitled to the same status, and the same order of consideration, if accompanying or following to join the principal. The visa prorating provisions of Section 202(e) apply to allocations for a foreign state or dependent area when visa demand exceeds the per-country limit. These provisions apply at present to the following oversubscribed chargeability areas: CHINA-mainland born, INDIA, MEXICO, and PHILIPPINES.
From the text highlighted above can we infer that EB principal applicant's PD will be applied to EB dependent (irrespective of whether the visa number is taken from EB or FB) ?
http://www.uscis.gov/propub/ProPubVAP.jsp?dockey=c9fef57852dc066cfe16a4cb81683 8a4
203(d) => Treatment of Family Members. - A spouse or child as defined in subparagraph (A), (B), (C), (D), or (E) of section 101(b)(1) shall, if not otherwise entitled to an immigrant status and the immediate issuance of a visa under subsection (a), (b), or (c), be entitled to the same status, and the same order of consideration provided in the respective subsection, if accompanying or following to join, the spouse or parent.
same status can be EB GC or just GC ?? If it is EB GC then this thread can RIP
harrydr
11-17 03:39 PM
Done. Twice, one from my e-mail and the 2nd from my wife's e-mail.
more...
diptam
09-29 11:46 PM
Your employer do NOT have to give LC or Original 140 to you for invoking AC21. If you have 485/AOS receipt ( which is your personal property) and you got a copy of 140 receipt ( if not approved) / copy of approval notice and that 485 shows more than 180 days from RECEIPT DATE you are good to switch Jobs.
Just keep in touch with Attorney in case if any RFE comes - so that he contacts you now instead of your previous employer. If you are a self-filer or have hired your own Lawyer even you dont have this headache.
When changing Jobs - be responsible on your own , so that you can respond to the RFE satisfactorily. Also make sure you get a letter from new employer that they want to recruit you on a permanent basis quoting your Salary and Job description.
If Labor Certification and I-140 Approval Notices are a property of the Employer, how the "Beneficiary" is supposed to invoke 'AC-21' for changing jobs in the future without having the approval notices? - My employer has a policy of NOT giving out approval notices of LC and I-140.
Just keep in touch with Attorney in case if any RFE comes - so that he contacts you now instead of your previous employer. If you are a self-filer or have hired your own Lawyer even you dont have this headache.
When changing Jobs - be responsible on your own , so that you can respond to the RFE satisfactorily. Also make sure you get a letter from new employer that they want to recruit you on a permanent basis quoting your Salary and Job description.
If Labor Certification and I-140 Approval Notices are a property of the Employer, how the "Beneficiary" is supposed to invoke 'AC-21' for changing jobs in the future without having the approval notices? - My employer has a policy of NOT giving out approval notices of LC and I-140.
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bindoke
08-25 12:38 PM
take your 485 and 140 receipts.
more...
ski_dude12
08-26 03:13 PM
Not sure if I got your question...
You can file I-485 only when your dates are current. If you filed I-485 by itself (not concurrently with I-140) then your PD will not be on the I-485.
is this pattern (missing PD on I-485) for people who've PD current and not got greened?
You can file I-485 only when your dates are current. If you filed I-485 by itself (not concurrently with I-140) then your PD will not be on the I-485.
is this pattern (missing PD on I-485) for people who've PD current and not got greened?
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bluesky1
10-08 01:20 PM
Getting really worried now! What happened to our packages? I asked my lawyer and he said all the applications filed together with mine have received receipts except mine? Is that normal? Did you guys ask your lawyer? Did the applications filed together with yours all get receipts?
more...
h1techSlave
03-28 11:16 AM
You have predicted that EB3-India cut of date would become June 2003. But your PD is July 2003. Usually people do not predict that way. They predict their own PD would become current pretty soon.:D
At one end it is bad that USCIS moved back Nebraska Processing date to June 08 2007 (More than one month backword) but it looks like USCIS is preparing itself to kick EB3-India ahead... It is too early to say this confidently.. But my feeling is that USCIS will keep processing dates tied to June 2007 and will kick EB3-India ahead. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Though as per murthy's web site in May bulletin EB3-India dates will remain same, I am feeling that if my guess is correct then at least from June bulletin we will see 2 patterns 1) Nebraka processing date would not move ahead for some months or will
move ahead very slowly from June 08 2007
2) Eb3-India PD dates will move ahead speedily. To me it looks like USCIS is now prepared to kick EB3-I (Till June 2003 PD) lot out.
At one end it is bad that USCIS moved back Nebraska Processing date to June 08 2007 (More than one month backword) but it looks like USCIS is preparing itself to kick EB3-India ahead... It is too early to say this confidently.. But my feeling is that USCIS will keep processing dates tied to June 2007 and will kick EB3-India ahead. I am keeping my fingers crossed. Though as per murthy's web site in May bulletin EB3-India dates will remain same, I am feeling that if my guess is correct then at least from June bulletin we will see 2 patterns 1) Nebraka processing date would not move ahead for some months or will
move ahead very slowly from June 08 2007
2) Eb3-India PD dates will move ahead speedily. To me it looks like USCIS is now prepared to kick EB3-I (Till June 2003 PD) lot out.
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sanhari
07-26 09:43 AM
GCperm, Thank you for your inputs.
I actually got this input of contacting congressman to implement this change, from USCIS only(their blog). I will also contact the ones mentioned in your posting. I also request all EB folks affected by this spillover usage not based on priority date, to contact them in addition to their local congressman. Let's not leave any stone unturned to make this happen, to help us all out. If this happens soon to create an impact, we may see some light in the upcoming bulletins. So all of you please do your part to contact them today(if not done already), I am on it now.
Sanhari,
If we go with your feeling, and run the Campaign right way then following is summary.
1) What you mentioned was there is no need to Legislative change for your solution only Interpretation of INA need to be changed challenged.
2) EB3 Folks want only on using Fall Across / Down /UP visa's to be allocated based on PD, rather then category.
3) Removing Country quota will need legislative change and EB3 folks don't want to take it on hand at this time.
4) You and EB3 folks are good with division created by this Campaign.
Now, If above summary is true then You need to be doing following,
1) READ INA and Find where is violation or Incorrect interpretation in Applying VISA to EB2.
2) You need to be contacting DOS - Mr. Charles Oppenheim / Hillary Clinton their 2007 interpretation of Applying VISA to EB2.
3) You need to be contacting DOS Liaison to Challenge their 2007 interpretation of Applying VISA to EB2.
4) If EB3 Guys are confident of incorrect INA interpretation, collect Money and Prepare for Law-Suit if needed.
5) As there is no Legislative changes needed, there is no need to contact Law makers (Senators, House members).
6) There is no Process improvements so no need to reach out to USCIS ombudsman.
7) Its About VISA allocation by DOS, so contacting USCIS won't help either.
Now Contacts for DOS,
Followings are Contact Information for DOS Liaison,
Palma R. Yanni (dl), DOS Liaison Committee Chair, AILA Past President, Washington, DC Contact Information (http://www.palma-yanni.com/contact.htm)
Jerome G. Grzeca, DOS Liaison Committee Vice-Chair, AILA Board of Governors, Milwaukee, WI http://www.grzecalaw.com/contact_us.cfm
Following is the Link to Send email/Questions to Department of State.
Contact Us at the U.S. State Department (http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=4Eiijc*j&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=264&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD0xMTYsMTE2JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0 mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ub CZwX3BhZ2U9MQ)
Following is the Contact information for DOS
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/111781.pdf
Oppenheim, Charles W. CA/VO/F/IV L415(CHIEF SA-1 (202) 663-1087
Good Luck and God Bless.
I actually got this input of contacting congressman to implement this change, from USCIS only(their blog). I will also contact the ones mentioned in your posting. I also request all EB folks affected by this spillover usage not based on priority date, to contact them in addition to their local congressman. Let's not leave any stone unturned to make this happen, to help us all out. If this happens soon to create an impact, we may see some light in the upcoming bulletins. So all of you please do your part to contact them today(if not done already), I am on it now.
Sanhari,
If we go with your feeling, and run the Campaign right way then following is summary.
1) What you mentioned was there is no need to Legislative change for your solution only Interpretation of INA need to be changed challenged.
2) EB3 Folks want only on using Fall Across / Down /UP visa's to be allocated based on PD, rather then category.
3) Removing Country quota will need legislative change and EB3 folks don't want to take it on hand at this time.
4) You and EB3 folks are good with division created by this Campaign.
Now, If above summary is true then You need to be doing following,
1) READ INA and Find where is violation or Incorrect interpretation in Applying VISA to EB2.
2) You need to be contacting DOS - Mr. Charles Oppenheim / Hillary Clinton their 2007 interpretation of Applying VISA to EB2.
3) You need to be contacting DOS Liaison to Challenge their 2007 interpretation of Applying VISA to EB2.
4) If EB3 Guys are confident of incorrect INA interpretation, collect Money and Prepare for Law-Suit if needed.
5) As there is no Legislative changes needed, there is no need to contact Law makers (Senators, House members).
6) There is no Process improvements so no need to reach out to USCIS ombudsman.
7) Its About VISA allocation by DOS, so contacting USCIS won't help either.
Now Contacts for DOS,
Followings are Contact Information for DOS Liaison,
Palma R. Yanni (dl), DOS Liaison Committee Chair, AILA Past President, Washington, DC Contact Information (http://www.palma-yanni.com/contact.htm)
Jerome G. Grzeca, DOS Liaison Committee Vice-Chair, AILA Board of Governors, Milwaukee, WI http://www.grzecalaw.com/contact_us.cfm
Following is the Link to Send email/Questions to Department of State.
Contact Us at the U.S. State Department (http://contact-us.state.gov/cgi-bin/state.cfg/php/enduser/ask.php?p_sid=4Eiijc*j&p_accessibility=0&p_redirect=&p_lva=264&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPSZwX3NvcnRfYnk9JnBfZ3JpZHNvcnQ9JnBfc m93X2NudD0xMTYsMTE2JnBfcHJvZHM9JnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0 mcF9jdj0mcF9zZWFyY2hfdHlwZT1hbnN3ZXJzLnNlYXJjaF9ub CZwX3BhZ2U9MQ)
Following is the Contact information for DOS
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/111781.pdf
Oppenheim, Charles W. CA/VO/F/IV L415(CHIEF SA-1 (202) 663-1087
Good Luck and God Bless.
more...
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sridhar68
09-10 09:15 AM
I don't know what this means. This is what it say in the Mumbai website.
Category India Most Other Countries
F1 22 July 2003 22 July 2003
FX 1 March 2003 1 March 2003
F2A 1 June 2005 1 June 2005
F2B 22 August 2001 22 August 2001
F3 15 Janurary 2001 15 Janurary 2001
F4 15 April 1999 15 April 1999
E1 Current Current
E2 22 January 2005 Current
E3 22 February 2002 1 June 2002
EW 1 June 2001 1 June 2001
E4 Current Current
E4-Religious Current Current
Category India Most Other Countries
F1 22 July 2003 22 July 2003
FX 1 March 2003 1 March 2003
F2A 1 June 2005 1 June 2005
F2B 22 August 2001 22 August 2001
F3 15 Janurary 2001 15 Janurary 2001
F4 15 April 1999 15 April 1999
E1 Current Current
E2 22 January 2005 Current
E3 22 February 2002 1 June 2002
EW 1 June 2001 1 June 2001
E4 Current Current
E4-Religious Current Current
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supreet
07-08 04:02 PM
Hello All,
After being without job for almost 2 months, I am getting an offer for a short term project on 1099. Project is in my field and my job responsibilites are exactly same as what was approved on my labor. I am a Jul 07 filer.
Now, if in the next few months I get any Employement Verification RFE, what are my options? How can I answer the RFE while on 1099? What kind of documentation will I need? Has anyone successfully answered an EV RFE while on 1099?
OR
Is being on 1099 while on EAD a bad idea and I should stay away from it?
Related questions - I am not planning to file AC21 at this time as this is a short term contract and I don't want to 'notify' USCIS of any changes at this time. Can there be any potential issues of not filing for AC21 in such cases? My EAD will be up for renewal in Sept 2010 and I am hoping to be in a full time permanant position by then.
Thanks all for you replies!!!
- S
After being without job for almost 2 months, I am getting an offer for a short term project on 1099. Project is in my field and my job responsibilites are exactly same as what was approved on my labor. I am a Jul 07 filer.
Now, if in the next few months I get any Employement Verification RFE, what are my options? How can I answer the RFE while on 1099? What kind of documentation will I need? Has anyone successfully answered an EV RFE while on 1099?
OR
Is being on 1099 while on EAD a bad idea and I should stay away from it?
Related questions - I am not planning to file AC21 at this time as this is a short term contract and I don't want to 'notify' USCIS of any changes at this time. Can there be any potential issues of not filing for AC21 in such cases? My EAD will be up for renewal in Sept 2010 and I am hoping to be in a full time permanant position by then.
Thanks all for you replies!!!
- S
more...
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thakkarbhav
02-01 09:01 AM
I just visited last month. I stayed there for 6 weeks...
Agree that economy is booking but....
(1) too much pollution.
(2) No infrastructure to handle cars and two wheeleers.
(3) too much mosquito even in winter/summer. I do not know what will happen in rainy days.
(4) prices for every item have gone up by 3X..Most of the item I am not able to justify the rise. The quality of the product has not gone up.
(5) easy to set up business..get house...get car but tough to drive peacefully...need to pray god every morning so that we come back home with 2 hands and 2 legs and unbroken body parts.
(6) Club culture is booming too...so if you have daughter who is teen then need to check by that angle too.
Just my two cents....
Agree that economy is booking but....
(1) too much pollution.
(2) No infrastructure to handle cars and two wheeleers.
(3) too much mosquito even in winter/summer. I do not know what will happen in rainy days.
(4) prices for every item have gone up by 3X..Most of the item I am not able to justify the rise. The quality of the product has not gone up.
(5) easy to set up business..get house...get car but tough to drive peacefully...need to pray god every morning so that we come back home with 2 hands and 2 legs and unbroken body parts.
(6) Club culture is booming too...so if you have daughter who is teen then need to check by that angle too.
Just my two cents....
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alterego
03-06 07:19 PM
I hate to say this since I'm charged to the India queue as well. However this will not get solved soon. I saw on CNBC this afternoon that there were something like 53K H1b visas for Indians last year, next was china with like 8 or 9K, then others(I had no idea it was that lop-sided). When H1b visas are going so disproportionately to one country, the only solution to solve the EB green card logjam is to either put country caps on H1b visa or lift it on EB green cards. This is not opinion, it is quite simply a fact. Absent that, we can consider the EB green card route closed for anyone from India.
There is little and declining sympathy for the pro H1b forces. I suspect we will see highly restrictive legislation pretty soon, and based on the current sentiment wouldn't bet against it passing either.
There is little and declining sympathy for the pro H1b forces. I suspect we will see highly restrictive legislation pretty soon, and based on the current sentiment wouldn't bet against it passing either.
more...
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sracharla
08-23 01:04 PM
Yes...LUD on August 8th.
Hi Sracharla,
Congrats on yur EAD.. Did u have a LUD on yur I-140 ???
Thanks,
Hi Sracharla,
Congrats on yur EAD.. Did u have a LUD on yur I-140 ???
Thanks,
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desi3933
06-27 02:15 PM
These kind of agreements doesnt stand in any court .You can always say that you are forced to sign for your livelihood period.Esp. if he is a desi employer he even doesnt dare to go to court as that will cause more damage.
Do you know the cost of defending suit? You have to prove the statements too.
Search for law cases in PA/NJ and you will SHOCKED to see many desi employers who have sued their employees.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
Do you know the cost of defending suit? You have to prove the statements too.
Search for law cases in PA/NJ and you will SHOCKED to see many desi employers who have sued their employees.
Wake up and smell the coffee.
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h1b_slave
06-18 02:39 PM
My lawyer sent I-485 docs to Vermont Service Center, which they received on 5th June but No Receipt or No Checks cashed yet.
Has anybody who sent to Vermont received any update ?
Anybody in same boat ?
Thanks
Has anybody who sent to Vermont received any update ?
Anybody in same boat ?
Thanks
diptam
07-04 09:58 PM
First of all - Stay away from X ( be it american/russian or whatever company)
From your post it seems like Y is a kind of better in behaviour, closer to Home
, wants to help you in GC ( FROM SCRATCH) but you dont want to pay for GC cost of 8000-9000 again ( what you wasted already ).
I'm not a legal counsel/mentor or lawyer but in mY opinion - You find a company Z which has similar criteria as Y but only additional criteria is they will bear the cost of your GC - Its not difficult to find such Z ( worst case they may ask you to sign a bond of 7-10K if you leave them 1 yr after GC) ....
After you get GC or EAD at hand you have lots of avenues open to tackle any bond that Z might have made you sign.
Does this helps ??
When I joined Company X (prior employer) I paid for H1b transfer fee and h1b renewal fee(total $3200 + $3000).
They agreed to sponsor my green card(just to give required paperwork) and they asked me to pay GC cost, So far I have paid $1500 for labor +$1700 advertisement + $1700 for I-140 + $3750 just now to file I-485 for me and for my spouse as dates were current to my lawyer . I have labor and I-140 approved from Company X.
I was compromising my personal life by staying away from my family and company X didn't find any client near to my home. I decided to stay at home hoping Company X will find some client near to my home. I was on a bench(no salary for a month).When I asked for a "employment letter "to file I-485 Comapny X said they can't give because they are
not paying me , I said I will resign and then you give me "future employement letter". I resiged Company X( i found company Y near to my home), in 10 days they cancelled my H1b visa without informing me, gladly I found Company Y and H1b transfer took place before they could cancel my H1b. Company X is reluctant even today to give future emplyement
letter.They are ready to do corp-to-corp, for that I have to pay them H1b tranfer cost of $3200(as my prior h1b got cancelled by company X) . I don't beleive its worth going back to them , but at the same time never wanted to lose $8650 green card cost. To join Company Y again I paid h1b transfer fee and , company Y expects me to pay Green card cost again. I am on 7th year extension. New H1b is valid till 2010(3 yr extension on I-140 approval from company X).
Shall I start green card again with company Y ?
Company X doesn't respond to emails/calls. There should some law to protect us from such employers. BTW Employer X was an american employer and wants to follow book-rules.Example .. informing USCIS to windraw H1b petition.
From your post it seems like Y is a kind of better in behaviour, closer to Home
, wants to help you in GC ( FROM SCRATCH) but you dont want to pay for GC cost of 8000-9000 again ( what you wasted already ).
I'm not a legal counsel/mentor or lawyer but in mY opinion - You find a company Z which has similar criteria as Y but only additional criteria is they will bear the cost of your GC - Its not difficult to find such Z ( worst case they may ask you to sign a bond of 7-10K if you leave them 1 yr after GC) ....
After you get GC or EAD at hand you have lots of avenues open to tackle any bond that Z might have made you sign.
Does this helps ??
When I joined Company X (prior employer) I paid for H1b transfer fee and h1b renewal fee(total $3200 + $3000).
They agreed to sponsor my green card(just to give required paperwork) and they asked me to pay GC cost, So far I have paid $1500 for labor +$1700 advertisement + $1700 for I-140 + $3750 just now to file I-485 for me and for my spouse as dates were current to my lawyer . I have labor and I-140 approved from Company X.
I was compromising my personal life by staying away from my family and company X didn't find any client near to my home. I decided to stay at home hoping Company X will find some client near to my home. I was on a bench(no salary for a month).When I asked for a "employment letter "to file I-485 Comapny X said they can't give because they are
not paying me , I said I will resign and then you give me "future employement letter". I resiged Company X( i found company Y near to my home), in 10 days they cancelled my H1b visa without informing me, gladly I found Company Y and H1b transfer took place before they could cancel my H1b. Company X is reluctant even today to give future emplyement
letter.They are ready to do corp-to-corp, for that I have to pay them H1b tranfer cost of $3200(as my prior h1b got cancelled by company X) . I don't beleive its worth going back to them , but at the same time never wanted to lose $8650 green card cost. To join Company Y again I paid h1b transfer fee and , company Y expects me to pay Green card cost again. I am on 7th year extension. New H1b is valid till 2010(3 yr extension on I-140 approval from company X).
Shall I start green card again with company Y ?
Company X doesn't respond to emails/calls. There should some law to protect us from such employers. BTW Employer X was an american employer and wants to follow book-rules.Example .. informing USCIS to windraw H1b petition.
Naveen
07-09 04:05 PM
Added this info to the profile of Mr.Gonzalez in Wikipedia and also to USCIS and DOS.
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