scorpioduo
10-14 03:42 PM
Hi all,
I have to go to India on 1st jan , 2009 for 2 weeks , for my brother's marriage on jan 14,2009, but my existing advance parole expires on jan 12 2009.
I have filed for the renewal of advance parole but I want to know as to what other option do I have , if I dont get my renewal advance parole by jan 1st ?
If my AP expires on jan 12th and I come back on jan 16th and tell the customs agents that i have applied for a renewal and just didnt get it before I left, is that acceptable?
Thanks for your help in advance!
I have to go to India on 1st jan , 2009 for 2 weeks , for my brother's marriage on jan 14,2009, but my existing advance parole expires on jan 12 2009.
I have filed for the renewal of advance parole but I want to know as to what other option do I have , if I dont get my renewal advance parole by jan 1st ?
If my AP expires on jan 12th and I come back on jan 16th and tell the customs agents that i have applied for a renewal and just didnt get it before I left, is that acceptable?
Thanks for your help in advance!
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kaisersose
06-02 04:05 PM
can i get a h1 done from a desi employer just to protect the h4 status and join the other company thats offering me a job with my ead.
the h1 from the desi employer will not be having pay stubs but thats only to get h1 status.
For you or for her? Getting a H is not easy (you will have to wait till Oct 2009) and maintaining a H without paystubs is not legal either. Should be far more easier & quicker for her to get a F visa.
In general, avoid getting into risk situations that you cannot get out of. In the long run, being safe with immigration matters and resisting the temptation to make a few extra bucks will be more beneficial.
the h1 from the desi employer will not be having pay stubs but thats only to get h1 status.
For you or for her? Getting a H is not easy (you will have to wait till Oct 2009) and maintaining a H without paystubs is not legal either. Should be far more easier & quicker for her to get a F visa.
In general, avoid getting into risk situations that you cannot get out of. In the long run, being safe with immigration matters and resisting the temptation to make a few extra bucks will be more beneficial.
logiclife
04-15 06:54 PM
I have been in this situation but my work location changed more than 100miles within the same state. My attorney asked me to start another labor.
1. If you think that you will move back one the 485 is adjucated, then you dont have to worry. OTherwise, you have file a new labor. Atleast you are safe since your 140 is approved. You can port your PD.
2. If it is within few miles then it should not affect. Still you have to check with your attorney. Few miles sometimes puts you in different couty or state or even in different country. So the term "Few Miles" is relative one and it is better to check with attorney.
By making you file for new labor, your attorney has played it too safe. In your case, filing a new labor was not neccesary. Please read below and check with an immigration lawyer for advice. I AM NOT A LAWYER but this advice is based on 2 different lawyers I have talked to regarding my own case where I moved from Phoenix, to Reno after my labor was filed.
Here is the deal when changing the location while GC is pending:
1. You can change location during your pending GC. But your job description must not change. Also, you have to move back to the location where your GC was filed, ONLY IF your 485 is processed and approved in less than 180 days from filing (I dont think USCIS will ever be that efficient and process 485 petitions in less than 180 days). That's because your option of AC21 of changing employers and locations (within the same job description, you cant work at a gas station or McDonalds) kicks in after 180 days of filing 485. If your 485 is approved in less than 180 days, then yes, you have to go back to the original location where your Greencard was filed because you dont have the AC21 options of switching employers and locations during your 485 stage ... which is available ONLY AFTER 180 days have passed in the processing of your 485 file.
So as long as your 485 takes longer than 180 days, you can continue to work at your new location even though you GC and labor was filed at a previous location.
2. After 180 days of filing 485, you can change employers using your EAD and change locations. No limit. But it has to be the same job description. You cannot start working as a manager if your Greencard was filed for the position of a programmer.
1. If you think that you will move back one the 485 is adjucated, then you dont have to worry. OTherwise, you have file a new labor. Atleast you are safe since your 140 is approved. You can port your PD.
2. If it is within few miles then it should not affect. Still you have to check with your attorney. Few miles sometimes puts you in different couty or state or even in different country. So the term "Few Miles" is relative one and it is better to check with attorney.
By making you file for new labor, your attorney has played it too safe. In your case, filing a new labor was not neccesary. Please read below and check with an immigration lawyer for advice. I AM NOT A LAWYER but this advice is based on 2 different lawyers I have talked to regarding my own case where I moved from Phoenix, to Reno after my labor was filed.
Here is the deal when changing the location while GC is pending:
1. You can change location during your pending GC. But your job description must not change. Also, you have to move back to the location where your GC was filed, ONLY IF your 485 is processed and approved in less than 180 days from filing (I dont think USCIS will ever be that efficient and process 485 petitions in less than 180 days). That's because your option of AC21 of changing employers and locations (within the same job description, you cant work at a gas station or McDonalds) kicks in after 180 days of filing 485. If your 485 is approved in less than 180 days, then yes, you have to go back to the original location where your Greencard was filed because you dont have the AC21 options of switching employers and locations during your 485 stage ... which is available ONLY AFTER 180 days have passed in the processing of your 485 file.
So as long as your 485 takes longer than 180 days, you can continue to work at your new location even though you GC and labor was filed at a previous location.
2. After 180 days of filing 485, you can change employers using your EAD and change locations. No limit. But it has to be the same job description. You cannot start working as a manager if your Greencard was filed for the position of a programmer.
2011 2009 HYUNDAI ELANTRA
marlon2006
06-14 10:52 AM
Hi RC, that's just a nickname.
My PD is April 2002. At Nebraska Service Center, I was able to file the I-485 on Feb 2005 and from there we've got our EAD.
Yes, I know what you are saying about the one income, three people. There are many things to consider. We prefer that my wife invests more time parenting my child, therefore she is working only part-time. Part-time jobs typically are low income. It is hard to put your 1-3 year old child in a daycare full-time, you know. It is not the same than when you take care of your child, at least in my opinion.
If you ever come to Seattle, just send me a private message and we can organize something here.
Hi Marlon,
BTW, did you change your username??
We are in New York but if we ever come to Seattle we would love to meet you guys. How did you manage to get EAD for your wife? Is it possible on H4 before I-485 is filed and pending?
We would love to have a baby next year and hope that my hubby will be able to work by then...otherwise it is one income and three of us :(
My PD is April 2002. At Nebraska Service Center, I was able to file the I-485 on Feb 2005 and from there we've got our EAD.
Yes, I know what you are saying about the one income, three people. There are many things to consider. We prefer that my wife invests more time parenting my child, therefore she is working only part-time. Part-time jobs typically are low income. It is hard to put your 1-3 year old child in a daycare full-time, you know. It is not the same than when you take care of your child, at least in my opinion.
If you ever come to Seattle, just send me a private message and we can organize something here.
Hi Marlon,
BTW, did you change your username??
We are in New York but if we ever come to Seattle we would love to meet you guys. How did you manage to get EAD for your wife? Is it possible on H4 before I-485 is filed and pending?
We would love to have a baby next year and hope that my hubby will be able to work by then...otherwise it is one income and three of us :(
more...
snathan
04-22 08:24 PM
I am employeed in IT consultancy, and wants to change my employement as a permenent employee of the client.
When i told this to my employeer he is telling me that he can file a lawsuite against my Client(New Employeer) on the bases of Small Business Administantion laws, stated below
Although the contract does not specifically state that the client cannot hire the contractor (you) on a permanent job, it also does not state that the client can. Current Employeer comes under the category of the 'Small Business Administration' under the State and the Federal Governments. Both governments fully support the growth and looks after the interests of small businesses in the country. They have always done it and are even more supportive lately as a result of the struggle small businesses are undergoing in these bad economic times. I have been advised by the company attorney that I contracted you to the client purely on professional and ethical grounds for the benefit of Current Employeer business. If a giant company like Client just takes you away to their advantage, it may not be looked upon favorably by a small business court.
Below is what is in the contract between my Employeer and Client.
1. This agreement is for the sole purposes of providing the services of the Contractor�s employee XXX to (Client).
2. Contractor will be an independent contractor of Company and will work on a Client assignment.
3. Company will pay $XX.00 per hour to Contractor for all the hours of work and expenses approved by Client.
4. All time and expenses should be entered into client�s system and should be approved by the concerned manager or project manager.
5 Company will not pay contractor for any time and expenses not authorized and not approved by Client.
6. Contractor shall be solely responsible for the quality of work performed.
7. Payment terms shall be XX days net and will be made on a bi-weekly basis.
8. The start date and the length of assignment will be determined by Client, and Company shall let the Contractor know in writing before the date on which the consultant starts working for the Client.
9. Contractor reserves the right to offer consultant�s services to other clients until such time the Company and the Contractor executes this agreement as well as a project work order.
10. This is the only agreement between the Contractor and the Company. Changes can be made in writing only and have to be signed by both parties to be effective.
11. This agreement is subject to the laws of the State of Texas.
12. Either party can terminate this contract by giving 2 week�s written notice, via email or physical mail. The notifying party must obtain proof of delivery of such notification to the other party.
Can any one tell if there is any possibility of that
It seems he is trying to scare you...pay few hundered dollars to an attorney and check.
When i told this to my employeer he is telling me that he can file a lawsuite against my Client(New Employeer) on the bases of Small Business Administantion laws, stated below
Although the contract does not specifically state that the client cannot hire the contractor (you) on a permanent job, it also does not state that the client can. Current Employeer comes under the category of the 'Small Business Administration' under the State and the Federal Governments. Both governments fully support the growth and looks after the interests of small businesses in the country. They have always done it and are even more supportive lately as a result of the struggle small businesses are undergoing in these bad economic times. I have been advised by the company attorney that I contracted you to the client purely on professional and ethical grounds for the benefit of Current Employeer business. If a giant company like Client just takes you away to their advantage, it may not be looked upon favorably by a small business court.
Below is what is in the contract between my Employeer and Client.
1. This agreement is for the sole purposes of providing the services of the Contractor�s employee XXX to (Client).
2. Contractor will be an independent contractor of Company and will work on a Client assignment.
3. Company will pay $XX.00 per hour to Contractor for all the hours of work and expenses approved by Client.
4. All time and expenses should be entered into client�s system and should be approved by the concerned manager or project manager.
5 Company will not pay contractor for any time and expenses not authorized and not approved by Client.
6. Contractor shall be solely responsible for the quality of work performed.
7. Payment terms shall be XX days net and will be made on a bi-weekly basis.
8. The start date and the length of assignment will be determined by Client, and Company shall let the Contractor know in writing before the date on which the consultant starts working for the Client.
9. Contractor reserves the right to offer consultant�s services to other clients until such time the Company and the Contractor executes this agreement as well as a project work order.
10. This is the only agreement between the Contractor and the Company. Changes can be made in writing only and have to be signed by both parties to be effective.
11. This agreement is subject to the laws of the State of Texas.
12. Either party can terminate this contract by giving 2 week�s written notice, via email or physical mail. The notifying party must obtain proof of delivery of such notification to the other party.
Can any one tell if there is any possibility of that
It seems he is trying to scare you...pay few hundered dollars to an attorney and check.
wandmaker
02-26 05:37 PM
wandmaker ..Please read Phony postings and do not respond to these guys , they are just playing .. I m surprised senior members are not understanding the intend of the posts .
What can we help if he had problems with employer ? what can we help if he had h1-h4-h1 issues ? Every one just relax and stop replying .
I know every one wants to help others in our community but think twice before replying
I see the good intentions of your statement. Not sure, whether you really got what I really wanted to convey to to OP. Giving 1% of benefit of doubt based on (2), I was trying to find out
(1) The reason for amendment denial
(2) Whether the employer is exploiting him due to his ignorance
(3) Whether the employer is abusing the immigration system.
BTW, Dig through my posts on this thread and other - You will realize that I'm against everyone who abuses the system.
What can we help if he had problems with employer ? what can we help if he had h1-h4-h1 issues ? Every one just relax and stop replying .
I know every one wants to help others in our community but think twice before replying
I see the good intentions of your statement. Not sure, whether you really got what I really wanted to convey to to OP. Giving 1% of benefit of doubt based on (2), I was trying to find out
(1) The reason for amendment denial
(2) Whether the employer is exploiting him due to his ignorance
(3) Whether the employer is abusing the immigration system.
BTW, Dig through my posts on this thread and other - You will realize that I'm against everyone who abuses the system.
more...
anindya1234
07-17 10:13 PM
Need some views on this
2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring
hmehta
12-14 01:16 PM
Best course of action would be to go to your Home Country during that period....visa stamping is not a big deal at all.....njoy your vacation...for you might not get this much off/free time in the foreseeable future!!!!
You can not work after 7/9/2007.
The end of the OPT will determine when you must stop working.
The 60 days grace period is only for you to take care of business before you go back home. In your case you must wait for 2 months and 24 days before returning to work otherwise you will be in violation of your status.
andy
You can not work after 7/9/2007.
The end of the OPT will determine when you must stop working.
The 60 days grace period is only for you to take care of business before you go back home. In your case you must wait for 2 months and 24 days before returning to work otherwise you will be in violation of your status.
andy
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sabr
09-18 01:40 PM
my I-140 is pending for than 600 days as well in addition to my pending I-485.
while using EAD with my current GC applying employer(lets say not
getting paid as in this economy its hard to find corp to corp jobs), can I
work another job full time using EAD?
while using EAD with my current GC applying employer(lets say not
getting paid as in this economy its hard to find corp to corp jobs), can I
work another job full time using EAD?
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indianabacklog
03-19 01:16 PM
If it is true, how come the few person with old priority date (2002) is still waiting and some person with later priority date (2003,2004) got their GC..after Name check
RD is also not a reliable predictor since there are people who have been approved who applied for AOS in July 2007 while those who had applied prior to this are still waiting to see the light.
It is a random process for sure.
RD is also not a reliable predictor since there are people who have been approved who applied for AOS in July 2007 while those who had applied prior to this are still waiting to see the light.
It is a random process for sure.
more...
kicca
01-31 05:29 PM
^^^
hot 2009 Hyundai Elantra Touring
SAPGURU
07-11 03:53 PM
I am not sure if my previous employer will support, even i am not sure if they have sent a I-140 cancellation request to USCIS.
Can i file 485 through my current employer based on previously approved I-140 as my current I-140 has priority date recapture request.
Can i file 485 through my current employer based on previously approved I-140 as my current I-140 has priority date recapture request.
more...
house 2009 Hyundai Elantra Touring
krishnam70
02-22 12:48 PM
This is possibly a repeat/trivial question for the gurus here - but I am seeking latest upto date information. So here it goes..
I have been on H1B since Oct06 ( after OPT), working for the same company as Electrical Engineer in full time position. I haven't traveled to India ( or anywhere out of US) since Aug 2003 when I came here for my MS.
I am planning to travel to India this Dec and probably to UK in July. And so I planned to get my H1B stamped from Canada in May/June. But my company attorney has advised me that its better to go for stamping in India - as because of the Tech Alert List, there have been significant delays for some people.
I wanted to know if anybody has any real time experience. And what is the advise of the gurus - India or Canada?
Thanks a lot - your help is much appreciated!
Unless its absolutely necessary that you go out of the country I would not advise you to leave. In recent days I have heard of people with even valid H1 stamps and with projects on hand being turned back from POE by IO's despite getting assurances from the employee's manager that the position is critical. The question from the IO was they could find ton's of people here in the US who have similar skills and there is no need for a H1 guy to do it.
Do not want to spread the panic but ....Be careful..
- good luck
kris
I have been on H1B since Oct06 ( after OPT), working for the same company as Electrical Engineer in full time position. I haven't traveled to India ( or anywhere out of US) since Aug 2003 when I came here for my MS.
I am planning to travel to India this Dec and probably to UK in July. And so I planned to get my H1B stamped from Canada in May/June. But my company attorney has advised me that its better to go for stamping in India - as because of the Tech Alert List, there have been significant delays for some people.
I wanted to know if anybody has any real time experience. And what is the advise of the gurus - India or Canada?
Thanks a lot - your help is much appreciated!
Unless its absolutely necessary that you go out of the country I would not advise you to leave. In recent days I have heard of people with even valid H1 stamps and with projects on hand being turned back from POE by IO's despite getting assurances from the employee's manager that the position is critical. The question from the IO was they could find ton's of people here in the US who have similar skills and there is no need for a H1 guy to do it.
Do not want to spread the panic but ....Be careful..
- good luck
kris
tattoo Hyundai Elantra 2009 Air
m.e.g.
04-01 01:22 PM
Ok, sadly there is no option in Illustrator 9. At least nothing convenient like when you go to save. I've tried searching in the preferences for anything that would let me save it as a PDF compatible, but no luck. Guess it finally time to upgrade. :emb:
On the bright side there is a lot of good info on sunnypixels about what happens with gradients, strokes, etc. when you import them into Blend.
Thank you!
Meg
On the bright side there is a lot of good info on sunnypixels about what happens with gradients, strokes, etc. when you import them into Blend.
Thank you!
Meg
more...
pictures Hyundai Elantra Touring:
Kevin Sadler
May 23rd, 2005, 05:17 AM
Gary, they're all good. The sky and clouds in the first one are spectacular. You could lose that tree and all the scrub in the front and have a strong image with just the sky and those hills.
dresses Hyundai Elantra LPI
Suvendra
01-11 01:53 PM
I am on EAD and using AC21 working for new employer.
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makeup del Hyundai Elantra.
pappu
08-10 03:58 PM
Thanks for your contributions.I joined IV in the 3rd week of July 2007 when I was randomly searching for information. I did my first one time contribution right on the day the great news was released on 17th July. I have started my $50 monthly starting August 2007.
I would like to mention, what made me believe that IV Core was doing a great job and that it was worth contributing was that IV Core took a lot of risk(credibility) and posted critical news well before it came on any other website. It was like; they had all the scoop before it hit mainstream lawyers or AILA websites sometimes even before it came on USCIS official website (FAQ 3)!
This shows that IV Core has got a lot stronger and they indeed are in close contact with USCIS and that with the enough funds and enough support they will surely make things happen!
Way to go IV Core!
I would like to mention, what made me believe that IV Core was doing a great job and that it was worth contributing was that IV Core took a lot of risk(credibility) and posted critical news well before it came on any other website. It was like; they had all the scoop before it hit mainstream lawyers or AILA websites sometimes even before it came on USCIS official website (FAQ 3)!
This shows that IV Core has got a lot stronger and they indeed are in close contact with USCIS and that with the enough funds and enough support they will surely make things happen!
Way to go IV Core!
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samsanju.corp
01-08 02:10 AM
Interview date 9th dec 2009
Submitted all documents 10th dec 2009 as mentioned below:-
1) Petitioner's Federal Income Tax returns
2) Petitioner's state unemployment wage reports for last 4 quarters.
3) Letter from end client in US on letterhead indicating your services are expected.
4) List of petitioner's employees at your job site including names, titles, salaries, and immigration status.
5) Copy of contract between petitioner and contracting company with detailed job itinerary.
Till date I together with my employer have written 6 emails but there is no response.
I personally visited mumbai Consulate information center but they did't ave me any answer.
Can anyone please tell me how long this whole process will take?
Is there any chance that such case goes into endless loop?
My house and all belongings are in U.S. and I am clueless as what to do
Submitted all documents 10th dec 2009 as mentioned below:-
1) Petitioner's Federal Income Tax returns
2) Petitioner's state unemployment wage reports for last 4 quarters.
3) Letter from end client in US on letterhead indicating your services are expected.
4) List of petitioner's employees at your job site including names, titles, salaries, and immigration status.
5) Copy of contract between petitioner and contracting company with detailed job itinerary.
Till date I together with my employer have written 6 emails but there is no response.
I personally visited mumbai Consulate information center but they did't ave me any answer.
Can anyone please tell me how long this whole process will take?
Is there any chance that such case goes into endless loop?
My house and all belongings are in U.S. and I am clueless as what to do
hairstyles 2009-2009 HYUNDAI ELANTRA
willigetgc?
01-21 11:09 AM
I had a doctor's appointment today and my doc asked if I had read this article: Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html) and if I agreed with the author (coming from an asian/indian family)
What do you think?
What do you think?
jhaalaa
04-05 09:17 PM
I am currently working for an employer A full time on H-1 B. I-140 Approved (> 180days) and 485 pending (July 2nd filer). I have my EAD. My H-1 is being extended and I have not received my approval notice yet.
>> Good to know that you want to stay on H1. EAD has its own advantages and disadvantages - Primary 485 applicant should avoid EAD usage unless essential.
I got an offer from employer B for a consulting GIG. I would like to invoke AC-21.
>> Personal choice here. However, it proves that your intent was not correct. If you think you would be stuck for many years, may be you should - you know it better, because the hassle and risk is not worth the little extra money.
Can someone please answer my questions?
1) I am planning on doing a H-1 transfer to employer B. Will it be possible to do H-1 transfer while employer A is extending my H-1?
>> You can file as many H1 transfers as possible. Ensure that you have the copies of receipt notice of the present H1 status (renewal Application pending).
2) Should I let USCIS know that I am changing my employment?
>> You better do inform the USCIS of your intentions (including AC21) if you want to keep the H1 visa status active. Because if you had registered all your cases (present or old past receipt notices too) at USCIS website, you would have noticed that there are recent LUDs on the first H1/? that you entered the US. Had you known this you would not have asked this question ;-)
>> However if you go down the EAD route you may inform USCIS at a later date because they do not track how or where you use the EAD - but certain employers inform voluntarily and they would not share this with an employer. (Also remember that when you use EAD : presently it means loosing H1 permanently unless you have some time left from the 6 year limit),
3) I have a job code that I used on LC. Should I maintain the same job code for H-1 transfer as well?
>> You better do that for AC21. Also, try to ensure that you get the same job description - to be on the safer side and avoid the "same or similar" catch in AC21.
4) I am not sure how big employer B is (not sure how many employees work for them)....does it matter? Should I be concerned if employer B is a small employer?
>> It should be good to check the employee base and financial position of the new employer. The USCIS may deny your H1 transfer and leave you in a tough spot. It may also affect the 485 decision as success of AC21 is also dependent upon this.
5) With employer A I make x dollars. LC reflects this pay. When I switch to employer B should I also make only x dollars or can I make more?
>> You can make more - how much more is not stated but a substantial difference can affect the successful approval of AC21.
Hope the above helps.
Best Wishes for all.
>> Good to know that you want to stay on H1. EAD has its own advantages and disadvantages - Primary 485 applicant should avoid EAD usage unless essential.
I got an offer from employer B for a consulting GIG. I would like to invoke AC-21.
>> Personal choice here. However, it proves that your intent was not correct. If you think you would be stuck for many years, may be you should - you know it better, because the hassle and risk is not worth the little extra money.
Can someone please answer my questions?
1) I am planning on doing a H-1 transfer to employer B. Will it be possible to do H-1 transfer while employer A is extending my H-1?
>> You can file as many H1 transfers as possible. Ensure that you have the copies of receipt notice of the present H1 status (renewal Application pending).
2) Should I let USCIS know that I am changing my employment?
>> You better do inform the USCIS of your intentions (including AC21) if you want to keep the H1 visa status active. Because if you had registered all your cases (present or old past receipt notices too) at USCIS website, you would have noticed that there are recent LUDs on the first H1/? that you entered the US. Had you known this you would not have asked this question ;-)
>> However if you go down the EAD route you may inform USCIS at a later date because they do not track how or where you use the EAD - but certain employers inform voluntarily and they would not share this with an employer. (Also remember that when you use EAD : presently it means loosing H1 permanently unless you have some time left from the 6 year limit),
3) I have a job code that I used on LC. Should I maintain the same job code for H-1 transfer as well?
>> You better do that for AC21. Also, try to ensure that you get the same job description - to be on the safer side and avoid the "same or similar" catch in AC21.
4) I am not sure how big employer B is (not sure how many employees work for them)....does it matter? Should I be concerned if employer B is a small employer?
>> It should be good to check the employee base and financial position of the new employer. The USCIS may deny your H1 transfer and leave you in a tough spot. It may also affect the 485 decision as success of AC21 is also dependent upon this.
5) With employer A I make x dollars. LC reflects this pay. When I switch to employer B should I also make only x dollars or can I make more?
>> You can make more - how much more is not stated but a substantial difference can affect the successful approval of AC21.
Hope the above helps.
Best Wishes for all.
ashkam
08-09 09:34 AM
i filed my 140 on july 12th. Received receipt notice from TSC on jul 23rd.
My attorney filed for 485 on aug 2nd. But he filed with old fee and old 485 forms. He says i fall under july visa bulletin, so i can file with older fee.
Is he correct? Will there be no problem with my application?
Your attorney is right. Old fees apply and old forms are fine.
My attorney filed for 485 on aug 2nd. But he filed with old fee and old 485 forms. He says i fall under july visa bulletin, so i can file with older fee.
Is he correct? Will there be no problem with my application?
Your attorney is right. Old fees apply and old forms are fine.
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